Holdem cash game strategy. The 8 Bet Sizing Rules. Holdem cash game strategy

 
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When facing a 3 blind raise (with no callers), the player in the small blind needs ~36% equity to profitably call. In 6+ Hold’em, there are only nine ranks of card and so one in nine cards is a 9. “Open small and often. Bring food or drinks. Play a lot of weak hands in the big blind. I am planning on building a poker bot. Prepare for Variance. For poker charts, "s" means cards of the same suit (from "suited"), and "o" means offsuit (from "off suited"). Also, there is far less open limping. A Texas Holdem cash game is played on a single table with 2 to 10 players. It will teach you the. Last updated: Dec 10, 2021 • 4 min read. 02/$0. Raise With Your Draws. You can have anything from 2 to 10 players in a game of Omaha. Flexing Bet Sizes and Ignoring Balance. 5 big blinds, raise to 2. Players can come and go freely when playing cash games. 02. As the games got progressively more competitive and players realized the utility of 3-bet bluffing, a counter strategy slowly began to emerge in the form of 4-bet bluffing. If the letter is not indicated, most likely, off-suit cards are meant. In a $2/$5 game, a typical bomb pot might require $20 antes from each player. 05/. For the $0. 6. Hero is dealt X X in the Cutoff. Be economical. 1. 50 in cash games, including rake. 50 per game may not sound like a lot, if you play well and win that amount on average everyMistake #4: Playing Too Passively Postflop. For example, if you want to play a Hold ’em cash game, you can play with blinds of $1 and $2 (commonly called a $1/$2 game). Example #2: Hero Travels to Play a Tournament. 1. AKo is 12 possible combos of ace and. Royal Flush. Instead, use them as a guide when building your own preflop strategy. However, there is also a steady stream of action during the week from locals. Crush Live Poker – best for live games. Here you can find over 500 poker strategy articles across all skill and experience levels to help you improve your game both in live- and online poker. This fact means that if everyone is playing perfectly, this is the chart to go by. 5+ hours of new training content added every month. Bet small (25-35% pot) on dry, static board textures. 4: Upswing Poker: All-in-one MTT, cash games, and live poker training: 8. Today 11:05 AM 328,330. Cash Game Strategy Books. The game is played with a 52-card deck much like Texas Hold’em, but unlike Hold’em, the Pre-Flop stage comes with four hole cards, that is, cards that only you can see. e. The best 1/2 players can make $20 an hour or more in deep stacked games with this strategy. In this strategy guide, we’re going to talk about Texas Hold’em, and more importantly, we’re gonna teach you how to play this cash game, and how to play it well! Texas Hold’em is easy to learn, but hard to master. 75 until November 27, 2023 . Pot Limit Texas hold’em. k. Here are eight tips to help you dominate your home game (these tips are for a basic No-Limit Hold'em cash game ): 1. Most No Limit Hold’em cash games allow players to choose how much to buy-in for. Establish which color is worth which amount and attempt to stick with it if you are running a regular game. It also has about 100 quiz questions and answers to help you evaluate. You hold a King of hearts and 2 of spades. Texas Hold’em for Dummies (2006) by Mark Harlan. Use Non-Made Hands With Backdoor Flush Draws to Bluff If you have an unpaired hand with a backdoor flush draw, you should heavily consider betting if you have the betting initiative. Written by MasterClass. 05/$0. Stakes range from $0. The three first positions to act, UTG (Under the Gun), UTG+1 & UTG+2 don’t exist in 6-max, which means we only have players to act before the two blinds. And therefore, you need to know the right strategy to beat these games. This article covers the fundamentals of Texas Holdem cash game strategy, outlining the building blocks that you can use to consistently beat the games. Learn the ins and outs of six-handed online cash game strategy with Peter "Carroters" Clarke. Game Selection. 6-max games are won and lost on the button and players who can force their opponents to react to their aggressive play will find themselves successful. Be more aggressive with draws. Preflop Aggression. Doug decided to make a fairly loose call in this spot, but there are several good reasons why: 3. Recreational players tend to play a loose and passive style. If tight-passive players check-raise you on a king-high flop, they very likely have at least a king in their. That’s the inherent advantage of betting. Short Deck is the game of choice in high-stakes cash games and tournaments in Asia, but the game's popularity is increasing all the time in other parts of the world. You need to hammer on the loose passive recreational players and avoid going on tilt when they get lucky against you. 1. Poker Strategy. Don’t limp into pots ever. There are essentially five key strategic areas that you will need to focus on when you play Texas Hold’em cash games. 34. Each player is dealt two hole. This guide to poker strategy provides a basic overview of poker, plus strategy tips for each of the major versions of poker. The strategy is your overall game plan. Playing a low pair without deep stacks. Throw away anything weaker than suited and any. Be Careful with Coldcalling. Cash games usually feature a wide variety of opening sizes, ranging from 2x to 5x or more. 02 no-limit Texas hold'em cash games. 3-betting gives you a chance to pick. The board shows . R. Pot Limit Omaha is, first and foremost, a game in which a player can only bet or raise up to the current size of the pot. e. In cash games, players can bet any amount of their stack at any time, giving Texas Hold'em a wide range of strategic depth. Discuss both online and live cash game poker strategy for Texas Hold’em poker games, Omaha, Stud etc here Cash Game Hand Analysis Discuss Post hand histories from cash games and ask for analysis. No-Limit Texas Holdem Cash Game Strategy. If you have a No Limit Hold'em background, you're likely used to checking to the preflop aggressor with your entire range when out of position. Continuing with the example of your drawing to a flush with one card to come, if the game were $100/$200 limit hold'em. 10 blinds, then the max buy-in will be $10. In cash games players exchange money for chips, and there is usually a minimum. If you are playing NL10 online, for example, which has $. 3-bet larger preflop when you will be out of position postflop. Not only will you win half of the time, but you will usually win more money in your profitable sessions than you will lose in your losing. Finally, bet like you mean it if you’re going to bluff at all. 3: PokerNerve: Budget MTT training for cash game converts: 8. Available in cash games, exclusively at. 25BB open has to pick up the pot less than half of the time to show an immediate profit. You 3-bet from Middle Position through Button and face a 4-bet from the open-raiser. Get a handle on the essential basics of great Holdem cash-game strategy with our expert tips below. 17 and the EV. The best tips on cash game & tournament strategy, starting hands, poker odds and much more. Most No Limit Hold’em cash games allow players to choose how much to buy-in for. In cash games, players can reload if they fail, but in tournaments, losing chips in failed three bets can be more detrimental. 8-to-1 odds against) of making a straight from. 84. In this video, I discuss 5 tips to help you beat small stakes cash games! To get my Ultimate Cash Game Bundle for over 90% off, check out: is the simple strategy that I discovered to crush cash games. You should always raise with Pocket Fives preflop when the action folds to you in a 6-max game. As a result it is also a great game if you have a risk averse attitude. Once you’re signed in, click on the “Play Now Cash Game” tab to get into a Texas Hold’em poker game. Jun 30, 2013. Here are the main differences between cash games and poker tournament play: Cash games are played on one table. Tournaments are a totally different animal though. 3bb or less), you should defend with all of these Queen-X suited hands against all positions. If you have an unpaired hand with a backdoor flush draw, you should heavily consider betting if you have the betting initiative. A 200NL game denotes a $1/$2 No-Limit Hold’em game, with a max buy-in of $200. 4. My book, The Course: Serious Hold ‘Em Strategy For Smart Players, is a practical guide to winning in live no-limit cash games. Poker tournaments have extreme variance even when you are playing well, but cash games can provide a steady income. While there are many different approaches. In a $1/$2 cash game, the blinds always remain the. Every poker player dreams about playing in high-stakes games for millions of dollars. 2. 50 on average. Doug decided to make a fairly loose call in this spot, but there are several good reasons why:3. In other words, don’t be surprised if a live $1/$2 No Limit Texas Holdem cash game has high rake as a percentage of total pot size compared to higher stakes live games or $1/$2 NLHE online. Ring Games: Playing for Cash: The oldest one is cash games (or ring games) where players are given a number of chips that represent cold hard cash at the table. Live cash games often allow a higher maximum buy-in, typically 200 x the big blind. In this video, I discuss 5 tips to help you beat small stakes cash games! To get my Ultimate Cash Game Bundle for over 90% off, check out: I have taught MANY poker students how to CRUSH live poker cash games! But I see a lot of comments asking what poker strategy will help you beat small stakes. Bankroll Management for Heads Up Poker. Betting is good for hero’s overall strategy. In a no-limit hold'em cash game, you reach the flop in a heads-up pot. This article explores the inner workings of poker cash game strategy. The three first positions to act, UTG (Under the Gun), UTG+1 & UTG+2 don’t exist in 6-max, which means we only have players to act before the two blinds. 11. Using Chart #1, we want to call to encourage additional players to enter the pot. Poker Tip #6. 3 Tips for Cash Game Big Blind Defense. Chopping the blinds allows you to avoid paying costly rake postflop, which can be upwards of 25% of the pot on the flop. Others allow the button to straddle, or straddles in larger or. There are two major formats for Hold’em: tournaments and cash games. But it isn’t easy to make a hand in No Limit Hold’em. Have the best hand. 0: Run It Once: Huge video library for all poker game types: 7. Cash Game. Many people play this game exclusively as a pro or semi-pro and aim to make $100 an hour or more from it. 4. 3. Say in a $1/$2 cash game a player opens for $12 from middle position and it folds to you on the button. Poker Profit Vlog #37 Presented By Romulo Dorea Playing 1/3 No Limit Holdem Live Cash Game in Resorts World Las Vegas. Pokercode – best all-around platform. Avoid Circular Thinking. And therefore, you need to know the right strategy to beat these games. A very simple poker tip is to find a poker training site for the game type you enjoy most. Short Stack Strategy (SSS) This cash poker strategy consists in the fact that the player takes from 20 to 40 big blinds at the table. But it is the ideal book for the game you describe. 6. Flop ($12): 8 ♠ 5 ♣ 2 ♦. HAND NAME. This is the single most common mistake that new players make at the poker table. Pay close attention to the raise size. Full ring games (9 or 10 players) used to be the norm, and actually still are if you play live, but 6-Max now dominates the world of online poker. In the good old days, a 4-bet meant Aces and Aces only. In a $2/$4 limit game, for example, the antes are usually $0. This kind of strategy is similar to tournament play in the later stages. NL2 by the way is the 1c/2c games, usually the lowest available cash game online. Here are 10 essential poker charts to help your preflop poker game. Stakes range from $0. 50 is the level for you. Against a player with a tighter open-raising range, we should tighten our continuing range. Below find everything you need to know about playing Texas Holdem online, from the best Holdem sites to basic Hold’em rules, hand rankings and strategy tips for beginners. k. Limit players use many of the same rules as in no-limit poker, such as two hole cards, five community cards, and the number of betting rounds. 2. 2 folds, SB raises to $6, Doug calls. KQ is a big hand in limit holdem because making top pair is a big deal. These combos are sorted in order of MEV Raise. 6-max is a format where you have a maximum of six players at the table instead of 9 players allowed in the more traditional full-ring poker games. In these types of games, players are. Live cash games often allow a higher maximum buy-in, typically 200 x the big blind. However, in online poker, there are more poor players than observant players and you see so many different players they do not have a good read on you from previous sessions. Suited hands contain two cards of the same suit, like J♣9♣, A ♥ K ♥, K. With 30–50bbs, for example, our low pairs are significantly less valuable because there simply isn’t enough money behind to win. The author emphasizes exploitative play in live poker and clarifies how you should play poker against “flawless” rivals. Be Wary of Anglers. An intelligent player at these stakes in poker can make enough money. Your 3-bet sizes should be a little bigger when you’re in position. He runs through a spot analysing. You are never going to get your opponent to fold by calling. If you play those games, this series is a must-read for you. 6-max is a format where you have a maximum of six players at the table instead of 9 players allowed in the more traditional full-ring poker games. Be selective. This phrase drove the pre-flop strategy of almost every tournament regular for years, and it still has some merit. Most low limit players have a strategy and stick to it, but they change that strategy up periodically. It's an easy fold; you lose nothing. Unless you’ve had your head buried in the sand over the last decade or two,. Because equities run close in. These hands will be immensely profitable when our loose, passive opponents enter the hand, and get trapped when we flop a set, or make a well-disguised straight. S. Texas Holdem Poker Vlog. Open limping is when a player just calls the big blind pre-flop, and is the first player to enter the pot. What is a short stack in no limit Texas Hold'em? The typical short stack in any cash game or tournament will have 40 Big Blinds or less. So make sure you think very carefully before every flop and build the foundations for a profitable hand by making the correct preflop strategy decision. The three community cards are 9 of clubs, 7 of clubs, and 6 of diamonds. 1. The Body Language of Poker (a. These. No-Limit Texas Hold’em Poker Cash Games. CASH GAME POKER TIP 4: BLUFF, BUT DON'T OVER-BLUFF. All about Hold’em cash games with loads of tips on deep stack play and adjusting to different opponents. #4 Join A Poker Training Website. This means when you are down to 10 or 20 big blinds in a cash game or a poker tournament by the way. The player in the cutoff announces "raise", and can raise to a maximum of $4 total. The author of the book Daniel Harrington is a professional poker player with a world champion title to his credit—he won the 1995 World Series of Poker main event. a. The concept of a tight-aggressive poker strategy is simple: play very few hands, but play them aggressively. All Texas Hold’em starting hands can be separated into two categories: “suited” and “offsuit”. suits. Lesson No. In tournaments, the standard open-raise size is usually 2. Short stack poker cash game guidelines. It therefore demands our full attention (especially if we’re playing several tables at once). If a player who only raises big hands raises, you have to put them on a big hand. The Body Language of Poker (a. There is a lot more preflop raising and even three betting in 2/5 than there is in 1/2. Only play hands that have a good chance of winning a big pot, such as high pairs, suited connectors, and high Broadway cards like A-Q and K-J. In a 9-handed cash game, the standard open-raise size is usually around 3 blinds. Applying Sauce123 Cash Game Poker Strategy $400 NL 6 Max. Mike Caro was and remains a pioneer in poker strategy. 1. If you are looking to learn how to bet in poker, keep reading and find our top 10 tips for poker bet sizing that you wish you had known earlier. Advanced Cash Game Strategy with Kanu7: This massive poker course contains over 36 hours of content from Kanu7. Cons to Cash Games. Don't overcomplicate the game. When you get up to 20"BB" deep effective, you can raise to about 1/3 of effective stacks and look to usually get the rest in on the flop. 50 small blind and a $1 big blind. Stronger players tend to play more cash because it requires a deeper understanding of the game. strategy and notice it for what it was, advertising a bluff to induce action. don’t let him see showdowns that will clue him into your strategy) Simply put, poker strategy is a set of rules and definitions which tell you how you should optimally play your hands. He’s written innumerable. In a $1/$2 No Limit Holdem cash game your average opponent won’t play against you enough to use unbalanced play against you. Let’s first become familiar with the common poker starting hand notations you’ll often see in articles from the Upswing Poker Strategy section and elsewhere. Fast-play more often because hand equities run closer. Cash Game Strategies; SNG Poker Strategy Articles; MTT Poker Strategies; Heads Up Strategies; Live Poker Strategies. Doug recorded the match and analyzed notable hands in an 11-part video series for his. In No Limit you can lose everything in a single hand because of one error, but the amount you potentially can lose in Fixed Limit Hold’em is much smaller. Avoid limping in or calling raises with marginal hands, instead, either. Starting Hand Rankings. What follows are three ways you can beat loose low stakes cash games, live or online. If you’re in the mood for more action-packed poker. 6-max online games feature more action and aggression than typical low stakes, full ring live poker. Pocket Fives stand among the top 7% of all starting hands. Without players having to put money or chips on the line regardless of their cards, there’d be nothing to fight for and no motivation to play anything but premium hands, which would make this game very dull. Click to jump to an in-depth explanation of the rule: Increase your preflop raise size when there is a weak player in the blinds. Alex ‘Kanu7’ Millar has been one of the biggest winners in high-stakes cash games in recent. Lucid GTO Trainer & Explorer (Coming Soon) The $7 Postflop Playbook for No Limit Hold'em Most Popular The Upswing Lab Hold'em Membership PLO Launch Pad by Dylan Weisman The End Boss System by Doug Polk & Fabian Adler Road To Victory by Darren Elias & Nick Petrangelo Smash Live Cash by Nick Petranglo Elite Cash Game Exploits. . Drinking alcohol reduces your ability. 1. 50 in the pot before the first round of betting: a $0. Access to our private poker group where you can get help with your strategy. If you combine cash game strategy with a solid bankroll strategy, it’s almost impossible to grow broke in poker. Notice by winning $37. Three-Bet Light. That’s the beauty of poker. Play a Lot of Hands Versus the Recreational Players. Here you can find over 500 poker strategy articles across all skill and experience levels to help you improve your game both in live- and online poker. Focus on the pot size, not your opponent’s stack sizes. 5 Best Texas Holdem Strategy Tips are: “Have position” over your opponent. Wiktor Malinowski broke a record previously held by Tom Dwan when he won an $842,000. The best 1/2 no limit cash game strategy is to play a tight and aggressive style both preflop and postflop. First things first you should play the exact same hands as you normally would preflop with 100bb. Fold or raise with weaker hands on earlier streets. Villain’s 3-bet suggests a strong range, though it should contain a number of bluffs for balance: Red = 3-bet, Pink = 3-bet or fold, Orange/red = 3-bets or calls. " Learn how to plat short deck poker online. Open-raising too tight. Game selection is the process of choosing which game you’re going to play. You can also click on the right arrow on the game menu screen in the main lobby to register for play money poker tournaments. Tip #2: Semi-bluff with backdoor draws on the flop and prepare to bet big on the turn. Note: The Postflop Playbook is the revamped version of Upswing's most popular course, The Postflop Game Plan, which over 49,323 poker players have gone through. US Welcome to our HIGH STAKES livestream poker community dedicated to delivering fans a must-see mix of authentic CASH gameplay, showcasing the hottest n. In practice, six max cash games play looser. Many players go into these games with a somewhat weak strategy and end up regularly donating to the game. Open More Big Cards, Fewer Small Cards. Do you guys have any links for a good pre-flop strategy in NLH 6-max cash games, 100BB deep? This includes: Opening ranges; Flat, 3-bet and perhaps 4-bet strategies; BB defending ranges; Even one of the three mentioned above would be really. Practice Patience, Not Aggression. Heads up poker is a different beast when it comes to bankroll management. 6 Max Cash Games. Low-stakes includes $1-$3 (or $1-$2, depending on the casino you play at), $2-$3, and $2-$5 blinds. Poker Winning Hands Chart: Hand Rankings. Learn hand rankings, table positions & the best poker tips all from one. Tournaments can be played on one table but can also consist of multiple tables. We’ll start with a basic overview of cash game poker strategy, then dive deeper into the subtle nuances of cash games. And. It’s designed for players of all levels, yet progressively advances with each section. August 05, 2008. If you flop Q♦ 2♥ 3♠ you lose your stack to AA and KK. If there is $800 in the pot, then the maximum that you can bet is $800. , $1/$2–$2/$5), you may be better off avoiding blind versus blind play altogether by agreeing to chop the blinds preflop. In PLO bomb pots, a lot of players get into trouble when they have good but not great hands on both boards. 50, the small blind folds and the big blind 3-bets to $9 . Preflop starting hand selection. This is a very bad strategy to use for a number of reasons. Another example from a 6-Max $0. Then it moves to what your opponent thinks that you have. 4. It’s easy to make mistakes at low stakes poker cash games that could be severely hurting your poker bankroll! In this poker video, Jonathan Little will share. You're better off playing 7-9 into A-K than K-Q, K-J, A-Q, A-J, A-T or K-T. Moreover, the main events of prestigious live poker tournaments such as World Poker Tour (WPT) and. Not all 4-bet situations are the same, so let’s break this section down into two scenarios. 00 stack. Harrington on Hold 'em Expert Strategy for No Limit Tournaments; Doyle Brunson's Super System by Doyle ‘Texas Dolly' Brunson;. The $1/$2 NL game would feature a standard buy-in of $200. If you want to play Texas Holdem for free, check out our Texas Holdem game page: Texas Holdem Strategy. Online poker sites typically allow players to buy-in for a maximum of 100x the big blind in No Limit Hold’em cash games. Limit Hold'em Hand Example. We earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no additional cost. Typical micro stakes poker games include $0. If you are setting up a tournament with $1,500 in starting chips, use three colors: $5 chips, $25 chips, and $100s. CASH GAME POKER TIP 5: BE AGGRESSIVE. Memorize profitable 3-bet and 4-bet shoving ranges. 5 -7. With years of operation under its belt, Ignition Casino consistently garners. TOP 10 POKER BOOKS YOU MUST READ. In fact, in 6+ Hold’em you will fail to flop a set (32/34 x 31/33 x 30/32. As you might expect, 6-Max poker games feature a maximum of six players at a table. To start off, I’ll focus on a relatively obvious live poker tip that might as well be the “Golden Rule” to beating $1/$3 and $2/$5. No-limit Texas Hold'em Top Advice. Poker warm up routine for more winning sessions. Don't jump up in stakes unless you are properly bankrolled to do so. A hand like 5-4 -suited is good in situations where. Limit betting rules. 3-betting reduces the average number of players in the pot. by Uri Peleg Advanced Cash Game Strategy by Alex 'Kanu7' Millar Advanced PLO Mastery by Dylan Weisman & Chris Wehner Mixed Games Course by Jake Abdalla. Most of the cash game poker players nowadays tend to play at 6-max or shorthanded tables. Referred to as “ angle-shooting “, there are some poker players who willfully act against or look to exploit rules in order to elicit information from their opponent (s). by WCAssassin. The last hand you want to be calling A-K with is a hand like K-Q. Equities are even closer in Short Deck than they are in Pot Limit Omaha, which is traditionally thought of as a game where equites run close. While $22. Bet pretty large (55-80% pot) on wet, dynamic board textures. The concept is completely tied to mathematics due to the limited stacks of players. For example, a live $1/$2 NL cash game generally won't have as many tough opponents around the table as you'll find in a typical $1/$2 NL online game, in part because while there usually aren't. Download our FREE ultimate Texas Hold’em Poker cheat sheet PDF. Poker Charts (picture above), for instance, is a online service that allows players to manage their bankroll and analyze results through their website. Many people struggle to break through in a big way in small-stakes cash games. O. In a 6-max game, if your opponent open-raises on the smaller side (2. Cash Games Strategy; Home Games Strategy; Online Tournament Strategy;. It depends on. The Body Language of Poker. Ignition Casino stands out as a top choice for the best online poker for real money casino in the United States for several compelling reasons. Then you. Traits Of The Best 100 Big Blind Cap Game Players. 4. However, there are varying degrees of short stack poker as a 10BB stack will require a slightly different strategy than a 40BB stack, and it is important to be aware of these differences. If you make the call with 8-9 suited and you flop 9♦ 2♥ 3♠, you're only ahead of one of the five hands your opponent might have. If you deal AA against KK ten times, AA “should” win eight. This is the best poker game in terms of profitability without a doubt. Almost every poker players, however, will have started playing at full ring tables. Leading into the preflop aggressor (aka donk-betting) just isn't a good strategy in No Limit Hold'em, generally speaking. This structure wouldn’t be quite so fun in regular holdem so some modifications have been made to the rules to entice pre-flop action and create an ever-changing dynamic game. Essential Poker Books. In my opinion, selectively aggressive players can make the most money over the long run in No Limit cash. It's a big mistake to play a no-limit hold'em tournament the same way you might play a cash game. If your opponent open-raises to 2. Cash Game Tip #1 – Aggression Wins in Poker. Because of the many poker variants and the many poker event types, you'll find vast amounts of poker strategy resources. For the $0. Choosing which hands to play and which hands to fold is fundamental to playing a winning poker game. . Effective Stacks $200. These strategy articles. 1. 9-Handed Tables Are The Best Choice For Beginner Poker Players. By “low stakes” I’m talking about $1/$2, $1/$3, and $2/$5 cash games. Almost never call pre-flop, either raise or fold and avoid trying to set mine or nut camp. Poker is a game of information, and when playing with position you gain an important. There are two important factors to consider when deciding when. From rules to betting to odds to etiquette to lingo to pitfalls, this book has it all. cash game strategy no-limit hold’em loose-agressive low stakes strategy micro stakes strategy live poker online poker position More Stories Tommy Angelo Presents: The View From Inside the AquariumChips. Each player antes a fraction of the small bet before the cards are dealt. The hands that benefit the most from this are big cards that have good equity against a wide range of hands. 50 in the pot before the preflop betting round: the $1. Texas holdem is played in ring or cash game format and tournament formats. My free poker cheat. CASH GAME POKER TIP 1: TABLE SELECTION IS KEY. If you’re at a 9-handed table, the best baseline. Please note that short stack poker strategy and mid stack poker strategy are absolutely NOT the same thing.